That being said, I am a little perplexed and have hit a tad of a roadblock as a Picture Book author who is NOT an illustrator.
I took my January Manuscript to my monthly Critique Group this past Wednesday, and as always they had very helpful feedback and also some nice compliments on the piece. It felt good to get some direction on areas that were giving me trouble and to have a focus for my revisions. (By the way, if you are a writer and not already a part of a Crit Group....get one! I started mine myself and I have to say, what I have gained has been priceless!)
Anyway, one of the hardest aspects of writing Picture Books that I most hear from authors is the struggle to tell the story while also leaving room for pictures and an illustrator's imagination and creative flair. Some struggle with describing and telling too much so that the illustrator does not have room to "collaborate". In fact, the very first manuscript I wrote got that very comment from an editor/friend of mine..."make sure to leave room for the illustrator's portion of the story."
I wrestled with this idea for so long. I wrote and wrote, always trying to "leave room" for the illustrator. When I finally got feedback that said, "Wow! An illustrator would have so much fun with this project. There is so much here to depict," I knew that I had finally somewhat achieved this.Therefore, when I write manuscripts I try to keep them action-packed and fun on every page so that I can visualize them in my head...but not paint all of that visualizing with words. So, sometimes it means leaving "space"for for an illustrator's ideas. Does that make sense? Still with me?
Let me provide an example....
My latest manuscript involves a crazy trip to the moon in a homemade rocketship of sorts. I did keep this line brief, only stating that the protagonists "began to build with any items they could find." In my writer's mind I was leaving an open enough space for an illustrator to really have fun with this.
BUT...when I brought this manuscript to my Crit Group we spent a lot of time discussing what these found items were that made up the rocketship and some even wrote on my manuscript that they wanted to see or know what these items were.
Now enter a perplexed Marcie. Should I add a line that lists perhaps 3 items and then leave the rest to the illustrator? Do I list more and add this detail verbally? Do I leave as is?
When someone gives the feedback, "I want to see..." after reading a PB manuscript, does this mean that the author has done their job or not written enough?
Definitely something that makes this PB author go "hmmmmm......"
I would love to know what you all in the kidlit blogosphere have to say...
Always a tough call! My group calls it, "Trust your illustrator." Same thing. It's a delicate balance trying to write enough for an editor to realize the story and buy it, but not enough to thwart the illustrator's take on the piece. I have no sound advice, I just wanted to commiserate in the dilemma. Hmmmm.....
ReplyDeleteWell, thank goodness there are those out there to guide those who are confused. :) Good to know I am not alone, Genevieve.
DeleteI think your gut feeling is the right one, especially after listening to Emma Dryden's podcast on Katie Davis' Brain Burps. An illustrator would be able to do so much with "whatever they could find," and it would make the project more interesting to them rather than an illustration note that said, "tin foil, toilet paper rolls, etc."
ReplyDeleteI'm in the same boat as you, not being an illustrator. But it's precisely because I'm NOT an illustrator that I'd rather err on the side of providing less information and trust that the professional is going to come up with something far better visually than I could.
My two cents...
Good points, Julie. I was actually getting excited because I thought I finally had a hang of leaving the necessary space for the illustrator...and then I got that feedback. I mean, people SHOULD want to see my books...that's why they will be PICTURE books!
DeleteCould you suggest things with certain visual or auditory characteristics? I.E. "they began to build with things that sparkled, things that thump, things that spun and things that stunk"
ReplyDeleteJust a suggestion....
Great suggestions! My book is not a rhyming book...but you are right...I often forget that there are OTHER ways to describe/explain things...use other senses.
DeleteAre the other members of your crit group picture book writers? If not, it might be hard for them to understand the concept of "leaving room".
ReplyDeleteIt's tough knowing where to draw the line but I agree that listening to whatever your inner voice is telling you is usually best.
The rest of the group are pb writers...but I think we all struggle with the issue of what to tell and what to show.
DeleteI had to re-read your article to make sure I was answering your real question... I wasn't! haha (but I loved your article, I just thought you were asking author vs illustrator/author - you weren't SO I rewrote my comment!)
ReplyDeleteI think you were asking about your rocket manuscript and what to do about the 'things' that made up the rocketship... I think that if you want to leave that up to the illustrator, then you might (using a different font maybe a 'callout clipart'?) have a comment for the illustrator that they have the freedom to show the items such as:
but it sounds like they liked your ms alot and so much so, that they are already picturing it.... so send it off! maybe to the highlights contest... there are always space and rocket headlines in the FLORIDA newspapers!
Hmmmm....rocket headlines, eh? :) Might have to look in to that after a few more revisions.
DeleteHi Marcie,
ReplyDeleteI am in the same boat you are, pb writer only. After listening to Emma's interview I would agree with underwriting the rocketship.I do like Cathy's idea of putting some descriptive adjectives, but I can also see how this might be limiting to an illustrator. Instead of posting this question to PB writers, you might want to get feedback from the illustrators in the 12x12 group.
Thank you! If you know of any other illustrators to send this way to "weigh in" let them know.
DeleteMarcie, what suggestions do you have for starting a critique group? I have put the suggestion 'out there' and haven't had much luck. I was thinking of using craig's list!
ReplyDeleteAlso, as an artist I agree that you want to keep the 'page blank' for the illustrator's own imagination, but you MIGHT add suggestions for the editor(s). As I understand the illustrator generally only receives the text to work with.
DeleteJulie, I contacted my local SCBWI chapter and they sent me an Excel doc of any people who had shown interest in a crit group. I then emailed everyone on the list who said they were pb writers. This was back in August. This last Wed we were 11 members strong!
DeleteCraigslist might work...but I am in NYC and I didn't think that was the best way around here.
Also, you can always try placing a notice on the bulletin board of your local library.
Keep following this blog...I would love to write more on the "how to's" of starting and running a Crit Group.
Great post! As someone new to writing picture books I never considered the illustrator, but I will now. I would say go with your gut. You want to present the best picture book you can to an editor. The editor will know if something needs to be taken out.
ReplyDeleteGlad to be of help, Rena. :) Good luck on this new endeavor for you!
DeleteGreat post. I have the same problems... I'm a writer only, but can always "see" the pictures in my head. I have to resist the urge to write a note after each line! For my PB for the January challenge, I wrote a note at the top with an idea for illustrations & have left it at that, though I'll probably take that out when it comes time to submit it.
ReplyDeleteYeah, I have been told to write an Illustrator's Note ONLY IF you truly have to...and even then, to limit them.
DeleteThat's an eternal problem, I believe, for those of us who write just text. But it is KEY to leave room for the illustrator to work, because as I've had it explained to me (by Emma Walton Hamilton, who is an experienced pb author and editor) the pictures need to tell at least half of the story. The pictures don't just depict your words, they further the story themselves, so putting in too much description is defeating that purpose.
ReplyDeleteYou/we also need to remember that in our writing we need to work at SHOWing what's happening, not TELLing. Telling often gets mired in adjectives and adverbs.
Are the people in your critique group experienced pb writers, or are they starting out as well? That might color their ability to give feedback. Have you ever taken a class in picture book writing (online or in "real life") or sent a manuscript to a freelance editor for evaluation? Those experiences add greatly to one's understanding of what to do and how to do it.
Thanks, Beth. Yes, I have taken classes, webinars, and continue to seek out such information. I also have several friends who are editors who have read my work.
DeleteI'm with the "trust your illustrator" group! As long as the story itself is clear, you shouldn't have to describe the items - let the illustrator have fun with it :)
ReplyDeleteGreat way to word it, Susanna! "Let the illustrator have fun with it." :)
DeleteI enjoyed reading your post and the comments. I think I'm finally starting to get the knack to let the illustrator have the space they need. I've found that after I write a draft or two of my pb and let it rest, then I can go back in and remove the stuff that should really be illustrated. In her webinar last week, agent Mary Kole, said you should always try to never put text in of something that can be illustrated. Definitely a fine line to figure out! :)
ReplyDeleteYes. I, too, took Mary Kole's webinar. Thanks for reminding me she said that. Now that we have the link, I will listen to that again. She also had some wonderful comments about ILLO Notes.
DeleteMy first instinct is that your crit group is not as educated as you are on what makes a good picture book. Sure they want to "see" what these things are, but you are right, that is the illustrator's job. And they'll "see" them when the book is published! LOL! The illustrator will come up with things that you never in a million years would imagine and that's part of the fun. The only art note I would put in there would be *IF* there was a specific item of the spacecraft that was essential to the telling of the story--*IF* that item played a crucial role in the resolution, for example. Otherwise, you are on the right track. BLAST OFF!
ReplyDeleteThanks, Tara. I wouldn't go as far as saying my Crit Group is not as educated, but we are all fairly "green" in this PB Writer journey and are learning as we go along. :) However, I think it is very very important to have published, more established authors critique, as well, so we can learn from those who have been there already. I am actually trying to figure out how to run a Mentorship Program for new pre-published authors on this blog...kinda like a matchmaking service to link pre-published authors with a published author. Any ideas would be great! :)
DeleteWow! Great question. Now you've made me go "Hmmmm". I'm a rhymer and have yet to write a children's story that doesn't rhyme. So, my writing is in part driven by the rhyming sets I'm trying to find. Beyond that, I tend to be a detail person, wanting to make sure the flow of the story is logical and doesn't leap across spaces so large the action doesn't track. Besides, I think in some cases, the details are important to give the artist a foil---something to work with. That is, if a kid reads a certain detail in the story, they may actually be looking for that thing to show up in the illustrations---maybe not everything but enough so they can mentally check things off their list of what they expect. I can see from the comments this topic is a great discussion point---probably among authors, editors, artists and publishers. This could make a terrific article---or maybe even an entire course of study.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Bill! We will have to re-visit this idea often, because you are right...there seems to be a lot to discuss here. :) Thanks for stopping by, and THANK YOU for being my 40th Follower! :)
DeleteWhat a fun discussion you have stirred here. I also think less is usually more when it comes to describing things in your manuscript. Now if the materials in your rocket came into play later, of course you would want to describe them.
ReplyDeleteThanks, Hannah. I appreciate everyone's feedback. Definitely going to go with the "less is more" route. :)
Delete